[beta] Always fade between scene buttons

[JohnRichards]

To Support.
I am in agreement with gilsontech on a few of his suggestions.
Firstly, many fixtures have a dimmer and rgb channels, and the colour channels should not change in the fade, only the dimmer.
Therefore it would be better for the user to select which channels are to be used for autofades.
Maybe this could be a switch below each channel in Editor, and could then flag which scenes are to be used for autofade or not.

[support]

the colour channels should not change in the fade, only the dimmer

Please explains why ?

a switch below each channel in Editor

Not very friendly (in order this function can benefit to basic users, setting must stay easy), and screen room consuming.
We propose an INI file where you could declare the channels for fade. This declaration will concern all scenes.
Like this, it stays easy for basic users and it is more customisable for you.

flag which scenes are to be used for autofade or not

Looks redondant, since adjustable for each page.

[JohnRichards]

Please explain why?

If colour red=255,blue=255,dimmer=130 then colours would dim correctly, but if red=180,blue=130,dimmer=255 then the fades would change the value of the colours not in the correct proportion of the original colour.

As for the other 2 options (even though I like the feature), I think that the restriction of having a group of buttons in a non-fade page, and another group of autofade scenes in another page will create an illogical grouping of scenes.
I agree that a .ini file for the channels to be used is a better option.
If this is ok, why can there not be a .ini file for scenes stating [AutoFade=On/Off].

[DHoude]

I think the "- Let the Live User choose which scenes can be Auto Faded including different times for Fade in and out." is pretty good. I have done some testing and I am not using this feature anymore because I just don't have a full page of buttons where I want everthing on that page to be a fade button.

The first page I tried it on, almost all the buttons I had were good for fading. BUT, then I got to some scenes that are quick stobes and the button is set to Flash (on only on when held). The slow fade broke my Quick strobing scene, the scene works fine now that I have removed the fade command on that page.

So it would be nice to set this per Scene or Button to fade in, out or both, like we can do for Flash & button speed.

Right now with this Beta, I would have to make multple pages for 1 fixture. 1 page for my RGB strobes, scenes that I don't want fade or scenes with Flash button selected. Then another page with my fade buttons. So we loose screen realestate too.

Just my take on this feature. I do really like it and it will save allot of work, but per Scene would be better than per page.

[JohnRichards]

@DHoude,
In total agreement with you that the concept is very good, but it needs to be user defined as to which channels and which scenes it affects

[DHoude]

I think if you are getting down to channels of a fixture and working in live, that would be too big of a job to recode Live.

If you want individual channels of a fixture, I think that task would be better suited for the Editor. Lets face it, all you have to do is set the time and click fade or not on each channel there. It is a little more work, but I feel your are asking for more control than Live was designed to give. Then it will be per chan, per step in each Scene. Which really you already get that in Editor. You just can't do that on the fly anyway. I don't really believe that when I use this feature, that I will be setting it up at a show. So if I have that time, the per chan thing is best in editor.

I have several 27 chan RGBs and it is still SUPER easy to do in Editor. Just an extra few steps and no more than 1 min per scene.

Per Button or "Scene" in Live is a much more realistic approch. Plus this feature is New, so they already said it is only for RGB channels at this time. Personally I would love to have a Strobe fader like this. Fast to Slow or Slow to Fast.

Or Master RGB intensity slider (been requested in the past) in Live where I can select the chans and manually fade them out. I have used this concept for an entance, but had to guess the time. Did not work out so well... I could have nailed it with a Master intensity slider.

[gilsontech]

A lot of good comments here.

Not very friendly (in order this function can benefit to basic users, setting must stay easy), and screen room consuming.
We propose an INI file where you could declare the channels for fade. This declaration will concern all scenes.
Like this, it stays easy for basic users and it is more customisable for you.

I get making LIVE user friendly, but what about having an advanced mode or a way to turn on/off certain advanced features? Thanks!
-Josh

[DHoude]

I was just reading above that comment that you quoted, where you asked about a switch in Editor below that channel. Is that the Fade switch that already exists? or A switch to enable the fade in fade out feature for that chann in Live?

If it is the first, you are already set. If it is to enable the fade in, fade out in for those channels in live. My flash buttons are for my RGB fixtures and I would be enabling those channels for some scenes but not my flash ones. I am not sure how that would work in my case because some instances I would like it to fade and others (strobe & flash buttons) not. If I enabled it for my RGB fixture channels, then whatever page they are on it would still fade in my flash scenes, which still breaks those flash buttons.

Editing the INI with some basic instructions would really work for any advanced user if you really needed that much control. Personally, I would still like to set the button in Live as Fade, not the page. Which is much easier to implement and more user friendly than naming every channel. I like your idea, I just don't think that feature has its place in Live when there is already a good way in Editor. That is why I only bolded the first part.

As far as using Editor during a live set, I would think that is the tool that you really need. I could grab all my RGB fixtures and use the master intensity slider next to the Color wheel in editor. EXCEPT, when I tested this, I have to enable DMX in Editor which shuts off (in my case) the DMX steam from the Live app, blacking my lights out that were running and only does what editor says, until I turned DMX off in Editor. If you see it from this point Editor could be used (and should be the preffered option) for live independant chann control. It has everything we both need. I guess it would be nice to have an easy way to enable DMX in editor, do your thing and then give control back to Live. A key stroke may be best as I would have the mouse cursor moving the slider. I just want to avaoind the Blackout between scenes, which are the Live screen scene that is running & the manual scene I am making with Editor live during the show.

So i really think Editor is what you want and you can use it live during your set. I just wish the 2 apps worked better together.

[DHoude]

Maybe there could be this advanced button (like you mentioned) in Live, that will allow you to take over manually with Editor. But Not until you make a move with Editor.

If you enable Editors DMX, all the lights are out until you move a slider. Instead of changing the DMX button in Editor button, as I believe it should behave that way, I think there could be an "Editor take over" button that would allow me control of all the chanels that I modify, leaving all the others still working. At the very least in the background, or when the "Editor take over" button is turned off, or until the channels are returned to 0.

This way the Live lights never drop out until I make my move in editor. But can be returned with relatively little, to no blackout. It would be real sweet if my other lights (like lasers, etc) could still continue to run while I take over some fixtures in Editor, with a quick way to return that control back to Live as quick as a scene change.

[JohnRichards]

The switch mentioned in Editor was an additional one to flag which channels are to fade in the scene if the software is restricted to all scenes on the page. If not, then a button flag within Live (eg Flash etc, but would be "Fade In" and "Fade Out") would be the best bet.
I do not think that anything I do, that I can even consider using Editor in the "Live Environment". Totally out of the question.
The software is great, and to allow the software to be used in an advanced mode could be beneficial to a lot of users.