Two APCs (almost) Working

[mikepmr]

Hello everyone. This is my first post and I've registered just to make it.
I'm rather new to lighting and Show Xpress. I own both an APC40 and APC20, and want to get them both working. I had no idea what I was getting into or that it would be so difficult to make this happen.

So, I followed the instructions on the post at the top of the page http://forum.thelightingcontroller.com/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=4169 to use Midi Pipe to do so. However, I ran into a problem with those instructions. The APCs are 8 channel controllers. Therefore, I set up the APC40 to use channels 1-8, and the APC20 to use channels 9-16.
The following screenshots are how I have it set up differently than in the above post:











This has SUCCESSFULLY given me independent INPUT from each controller to ShowXpress!

HOWEVER, I am getting NO LED output to either controller. I am fully aware on how to use the output features and using either controller on its own I can make it work just fine, but this has me stumped. I believe I logically routed everything how it should be with the APC20 (1 becomes 9 TO showxpress, and then 9 from showxpress becomes 1 again at the controller, etc) but no matter what shouldn't the APC40 be getting feedback since I haven't messed with those channels at all?

I hope this will shed some light on using multiple APCs as I have seen a few of you have had trouble with them. And I also hope someone can take what I've done here and find a way to get the output working correctly because at least, for me, without output, the controllers are useless.

If you need me to clarify anything I've done just ask!
Hopefully someone out there can help figure out the output issue.
Thanks!

[AmpdEntmt]

@mikepmr I'm glad you found my article useful with midi pipe... your setup with the akai apc 40 and apc 20 is actually what my next controller purchases are going to be, so i'm eager to help you solve this issue!

I ran into a problem with those instructions. The APCs are 8 channel controllers.

Your statement about the apc's being 8 channels is correct, and I failed to mention in the guide that it is intended for single channel controllers. It does work with multi channel ones as you have figured out though.

With that said, I looked at your screenshots and one problem right off the bat is your APC 20 output pipe has the wrong channels highlighted in the channel filter tool. Channels 1-8 should be highlighted and not 9-16 like the screenshot depicts.

Additionally, I think you should try and delete the channel router tool from your APC 40 IN and OUT pipes, and just leave the channel filter in place.

Finally, In the APC 20 OUT pipe's channel router, change all of the 'channel 1 to' values back to channel t to 1, and channel 2 to 2, etc.. not the channel 1 to 9, channel 2 to 10, etc like you have it currently. BUT ONLY DO IT FOR THE CHANNELS 1-9 on the LHS of the screen. The right side of the screen is correct.

Hopefully this solves the issue, please let me know if it all ends up working out.

Cheers,
Matt

[mikepmr]

Hi Matt, thanks for the reply!
I did as you said, and still no luck.

I forgot to mention the process I use when using the APC40 by itself. If you aren't aware, to be used with software other than Ableton, they need to be put into "dummy" mode. This involves starting Ableton, letting it recognize the controller, and then closing Ableton. When Ableton is closed, all the LEDs go off. I immediately open SX. This works perfectly with the APC40 by itself. As soon as I start SX, whenever I hit a button, it turns it on and acts as it should.

Now, when I follow this same process for both controllers, with MidiPipe open and selected as the IN and OUT, the LEDs on both APCs are dead. Not even a green light only when pressed. Input still works, but I'm not getting any feedback at all.

Do you have any ideas? When did you plan on purchasing them for yourself? They are great little controllers I must say, I've had my 40 for years and just picked up the 20 recently. You'll love them.

Thanks again for your help

[mikepmr]

Well I've made another discovery.. the APCs are actually 9 channel controllers. I'm going to guess this is causing some issues..
I really don't know what to do from here. I see all this unusable potential sitting at my desk

[AmpdEntmt]

Hi @mikepmr,

I thought for sure that last post would solve your problem, but there must be something else going on here!

A tool in MidiPipe you may find useful for solving your problem is called "AList". Try adding it into your input/output pipes and see if the midi messages are coming in and leaving the computer properly. Be sure to place the "AList" tool right before the 'Midi Out" tool in each of your pipes because the order of the tools is important. If you don't see any messages on your output pipes to the controllers then this is a software issue. If there are messages there, then this is an issue on the APC's.

Another resource you may want to look into is this Midi protocol page for the APC's: http://6be54c364949b623a3c0-4409a68c214f3a9eeca8d0265e9266c0.r0.cf2.rackcdn.com/754/documents/APC40_Communications_Protocol_rev_1.pdf However, it seems to contradict your prior statement:

If you aren't aware, to be used with software other than Ableton, they need to be put into "dummy" mode.

On the second half of page 6 and into page 7, the document states that the controller should default to 'generic mode 0' on device startup. In the manual it goes into more depth about this mode and lists the led feedback properties and knob types as well.

Well I've made another discovery.. the APCs are actually 9 channel controllers.

Where did you hear the devices are 9 channels? Do you possibly have a source for that? I could have sworn they are 8 channel devices. If they do turn out to be 9 channels, that will certainly cause some issues.

When did you plan on purchasing them for yourself?

I should be getting my set of APC's within the next month or two, I plan on attaching them together to create the 'APC 80' as I have mentioned in other posts. Just waiting for some money from last week's show to come through and my tax return, then it's time for some new equipment!

[mikepmr]

Hello again!

So I've added A LIst, and it looks like the software is sending the proper information back to the controller. Where to go from there.. I have no idea

As far as the dummy mode, or whatever the proper name for it is, that's how it works for me.
If I plug in the APC, power it on, and start SX, SX receives input, and even sends the proper output, but ONLY when the button is depressed.
For example if a button is supposed to be orange while inactive, and blink orange while active, it will only blink when it is pushed. When you let off, the button turns off.
If I start Ableton first, and then SX, the buttons illuminate upon being pushed (so you have to go through and push EVERY button) and then they will all act as programmed.
Side note: none of the knob LEDs illuminate. I thought I read somewhere around here that was being worked on though.

9 Channels: yup! none of the buttons are on channel 9, however when you select the MASTER channel that cycles through the knobs, those will show up as channel 9. Not sure if that creates an issue if you don't plan on using them.

I hope at the very least once you get them it's something you'll be able to solve!
Thanks again for all your help

[mikepmr]

ok, so I just opened up SX, and tried using the APC without opening Ableton. This time, no response whatsoever, which contradicts what I just said above.

closed SX, opened Ableton, closed Ableton, opened SX, and it works.

strange.

[support]

FYI: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4332

[mikepmr]

THANK YOU!

[beuzz60]

Now, It works very well with V8.1.00, see my post:
viewtopic.php?f=76&t=4267&start=20#p17502