Soft Patching Part 2

[Pink LD]

So I started a thread awhile back about the subject of Soft Patching and it was considered fixed as of 6.26 Beta but now that I have the theatres patch sheet and my programming it doesnt work right.

Why is the universe at a 1 to 1 patch? I have nearly 300 fixtures that I have written for all over my universe. The theatres 300+ fixtures are all over their dimmer assignments.
So I go patch the programming I have written in Ch11 to their fixture which is on their dimmer at Ch 44. Works just fine, it does what I wanted it to do.
But now I go to the fixture I have programmed in Ch 44 and find that the theatres dimmers have that fixture in Ch 84, perfect. So I patch Ch 44 to 84. And then it all goes wrong.
Now when I engage Ch 11, Ch 84 goes on. That's not right, its now double patched?!?

I need a a 1 for 1 patch to write my programming and utilise it with the 3D Imager, Editor, etc to write the show. But once I walk into a theatre I need the universe to be non-patched until I patch each channel. This is not uncommon. Its a feature I find in any standard professional console.
So here is what it should do, and I believe Marco asked this as well. If I patch the softwares Ch 1 to output to Ch 3 then Ch 1 is still unpatched.
So whatever programming I have written on Ch 3 affects the house fixture on Ch 1 of the theatres universe/dimmers.
Now lets say the programming I have written on Ch 3 in the software is the theatres fixture 503. Then I can patch Ch 3's programming to the house fixture 503.

So the softwares default setting can be 1 for 1 for 3D imaging, using Editor and Live.
But I need a non-patched setting for when I put the softwares programming to the theatres light plot and play the show in Live. At that point I don't need the patch to work with Editor or 3D, I need it to work with the theatres fixtures.
The Soft patch is only half functional and I can use it. But only as long as my programming does not conflict with the theatres fixtures. So in the current theatre I am going into I will have to move all my programming to a channel higher than 400, as that is all the dimmers they use. Fortunately I am only using about 100 of their fixtures so I will readdress all my programming to 401-512 and reprogram. But that is not really how this feature should work.

[marco]

hi i still got this problem too.
Don't know of it possible to do the patching completely different?

just an idea :
can u create a virtual universe--> use the dmx out from the virtual to the dmx in of the actual universe
building scenes will be on the virtual universe
i think this should be possible and since it al in the pc the delays will be minimal

[Pink LD]

Marco, I was pretty sure this was what you were getting at and you clearly have the same need for it as I do.
A virtual universe? I like it! It wouldn't have to be limited to 512 channels or the concept of universes. I could keep and write programming for all kinds of fixtures that I may come across and then patch not only what channels from the virtual universe I wish but to whatever universe I wish. I could then consider and adhere to the concepts of 512 channels a universe but patch from a large selection of fixtures. I don't know about you but my palettes of fixtures and behaviours just keeps growing as I do more shows in wider locations.

So here is my fix for now. Since the patch remains 1 for 1, 2 for 2, 3 for 3 etc... I have now moved my 80 channels of programming to channel assignments above Ch 400, 400 being the highest numbered fixture in this theatres dimmer DMX assignments.
So I can patch Channel 401 to 44 and whatever 401 is programmed to do, 44 does because its still on a 1 for 1 patch.
So as long as I any theatre I go to doesn't use dimmer assignment above 400 I 'll be OK. But this will not be the case in 2000+ seating theatres.

But a virtual universe is a perfect way to describe it it. We could do all the programming we wish to do, with all the fixtures we might have in clubs, small, medium and large theatres. Or medium (60-120k) to large (120k+) festival rigs. In the simplest terms I know how to say:
Its easier to match programming to the house plot via patching then re-writing programming to match the house plot. And its easier to match programming to whatever I assign my own fixtures via a patch then changing a fixtures address and then write programming to match it.

What I don't know is this: Is this what the company wants to do with the software? It is possible to run an arena rig with this software with up to 6 universes, but I can't imagine that I am really their target market. Many of the users of this product are looking to run a club rig and the software needs to be pretty simple an straight forward to accommodate the casual user that wants to be up and running with only a modest learning curve.
Still I can't beat the cost per universe to expand up to 6 universes. Me? I am almost ready to expand to a 3rd universe.
Hands down? This is one of the least expensive overall packages on the market with a middle of the road 3D imager built into the software but with closed source USB to DMX hubs.
I could pay a hell of a lot more for other manufacturers lighting software, then buy some ENTTEC hubs but I'd still need to buy a WYSWIG software with many of them. And I'd still have to do the drawing of stage, objects and fixtures for the WYSIWIG software.

[Pink LD]

Support and Marco,
I went ahead and moved all my programming to above 400 and patched the Inputs and Outputs as I needed.
I then hooked up to one of my test consoles at home and fired up one of my LED Pars. The DMX Input and Output patches patch worked correctly, so I can work with it for tomorrows dress rehearsal.
Once I understood that the ShoXpress channels stay 1 for 1, despite what you patch. Here's hoping that the theatres light plot master patch is correct and nothing is above ch 400. The last thing I need is some forgotten to be listed house light, work light or mirror ball up in the rafters doesn't come on when I am calling for a solo spot Leko...

[support]

We are effectively not really trying to compete with expensive lighting desks which are dedicated for your requirement.
This is why our dmx patch is not so efficient than these expensive lighting desks have.
Anyway, we follow your comments, and we keep them in mind.

[Pink LD]

Support,
I figured as much but to be honest you are quite close to competing with more expensive consoles and with the support to handle 6 universes makes me wonder why you are not. Ultimately I would need a large palette for various 16, 24 or more channels movers and the ability to reasonably clone the fixtures between manufacturers. But that would be a huge undertaking I am sure.

Here is what I observed from the dress rehearsal yesterday:
The Soft Patch functions works good. Once it got over being a little buggy it started to work like I expected. It does seem to work best if you write programming nowhere near an address what you might be patching. BUT the Soft Patch works best when you add to your patch a one for one. I went back through my patch and also patched 401 to 401, 402 to 402, 403 to 403 etc.

[toddlarboy]

This is a great way of explaining essentially what the other brands are doing. A show or scene is not actually created with DMX channels. It just knows which faders within a fixtures profile need to be adjusted. Then once that fixture is dropped into a DMX universe, the show takes those virtual channels and moves the DMX faders now associated with them.

One of the responses originally in this thread mentioned how we are much closer to competing with those "more expensive" programs, bt the truth is that this thread is from 2011 and it's now 2014. 3 years later SX still can't do this but those other inexpensive programs have found a way. I think a TianONE is less than $350 USD, gives a full 512 universe, and not only can do this but even more in terms of palettes, attributes, size, shape for movement, center point shift etc.

Please make this a priority in v7. This would be the single biggest impact in Facebook forums where users always ask "does anyone have a show for my new CHAUVET IMTIMSPOTxxx)?
The answer is always, "No, because you would need the same # of heads as me and they'd need to all be on the same DMX addresses as mine for the show to run".

The show should run regardless if we are truly soft patching to the movers new address. Hope that makes sense.

hi i still got this problem too.
Don't know of it possible to do the patching completely different?

just an idea :
can u create a virtual universe--> use the dmx out from the virtual to the dmx in of the actual universe
building scenes will be on the virtual universe
i think this should be possible and since it al in the pc the delays will be minimal