Feature request: multi head lights

[Arjan]

Hi,

I know that currently multi-head lights (such as Martin RoboColor or EuroLite KLS series) are not supported in 3d View as per

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=668
and
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=329

However, I wonder if it might be possible to add support for the following solution that does not require any changes to 3dView itself (I think) but perhaps 'only' to the Editor page. Let me explain what I mean.

For my EuroLite KLS-1001 (4x RGB par with integrated controller) I have defined the following 4 fixtures:

KLS Head 1
Channel 1 = Effect
Channel 2= dimmer
Channel 3= shutter
Channel 4= red
Channel 5= green
Channel 6= blue

KLS Head 2
Channel = Effect
Channel = dimmer
Channel = shutter
Channel = reserved
Channel = reserved
Channel = reserved
Channel = red
Channel = green
Channel = blue

KLS Head 3
Channel = Effect
Channel = dimmer
Channel = shutter
Channel = reserved
Channel = reserved
Channel = reserved
Channel = reserved
Channel = reserved
Channel = reserved
Channel = red
Channel = green
Channel = blue

KLS Head 4
Channel = Effect
Channel = dimmer
Channel = shutter
Channel = reserved
Channel = reserved
Channel = reserved
Channel = reserved
Channel = reserved
Channel = reserved
Channel = reserved
Channel = reserved
Channel = reserved
Channel = red
Channel = green
Channel = blue

As you can see these four fixtures together form a complete KLS-1001 fixture and from a DMX point of view they can be combined like this on the same DMX starting address without any trouble: shared channels (effect, Dimmer, shutter) will occupy the same DMX channel so all heads will respond identical to these three and the 4x3 RGB channels all occupy separate DMX channels and do not interfere with each other.

Unfortunately it appears that if you add this to your Live Show Setup, only KLS Head 4 shows up in the channel strip of the Editor window. Head 4 responds normally to dimmer and RGB but Head 1, Head 2 and Head 3 do not respond to the faders that match their DMX channel. It is also not possible to get Head 1-3 show up by selecting those fixtures in the 2-dimensional arrangement window in the top-left, the Head 4 channel are always the only ones that are shown.

Is there any way that you could add support for this way of dealing with multiple-head fixtures? It would greatly ease working with this type of fixture. As it is I must specify each head as having just 3 DMX channels for RGB only and I must create a separate non-visible fixture for the first three shared channels. This works with the actual fixtures but it means that in 3d View the fixtures don't respond to dimmer and as a result the dimmer channels is always considered to be at 255 for all four fixtures in 3d View. I can workaround that by using the RGB channels for dimming but for the RoboColors the problem is even worse because that trick doesn't work for them.

[marco]

hi
you only see the last fixture because it overides the first 3 with the reserved channels.


but try this
program 4 fixtures with
channel 1 = effect
channel 2 = dimmer
channel 3 = shutter
channel 4 = red
channel 5 = green
channel 6 = blue
program them in set up on start adress 486,492,498,504 or were you have space (this is only for 3d)
then goto patch menu
and patch this:
adress 486 = 20
adres 487 = 21
adres 488 =22
adres 489 =23 (red fix 1)
adres 490 =24 (green fix 1)
adres 491 =23 (blue fix 1)
adres 495 =24 (red fix2)
adres 496 =25 (green fix2)
adres 497 =26 (blue fix2)
adres 501 =27 ( red fix3)
adres 502 =28 (green fix3)
adres 503 =29 (blue fix3)
adres 507 =30 (red fix 4)
adres 508= 31 (green fix4)
adres 509= 32 (blue fix 4)

the adresses are just an example but here the start adres on your fixture is 20

only problem is that not all the effect ,dimmer, en shutter are going to the output but for 3d and dmx it should work


good luck
Marco

[Arjan]

Hi Marco,

Thanks for your suggestion. I was going to try it out but while doing that I noticed some really odd behaviour in ShowXpress which I would like to report first.

Support, could you please check out the attached Lightshow and tell me:

• why KLS head 1 (DMX 200-205) is affecting KLS Left head 2 (DMX 100-114 with only 100,101,102, 106, 107, 108 defined) and
• why KLS Left head 4 is affecting the RGB values of KLS Left head 1

I suppose the second issue may have to do with the four KLS Left head # fixtures using the same DMX range (even though their RGB channels are actually different) but I really don't see how KLS head 1 (at 200-205) could possibly affect a fixture at a completely different DMX address range. There is no DMX output patching going on.

Also this Lightshow illustrates my suggestion in the first post on how it might be possible to improve support for multi-head fixtures. It would be nice if specific faders for a fixture could be defined as 'unused' so that some other faders can 'show through' or if at least a fixture will respond to these faders even if the fixture is not selected in the 2d layout view.

[deleted]

[Arjan]

you only see the last fixture because it overides the first 3 with the reserved channels.

Coming back to this, I understand why I don't see the first 3 fixtures on the fader board in Editor. But the actual fixtures themselves could still respond properly to the DMX values that are set for their channels which match that of the 4th fixture as needed. Maybe the ShowXpress internal data model is partly fixture-centric rather than DMX channel centric but I would have expected communication with the 3d View window to be at least partly DMX channel based (ie DMX channel centric rather than fixturecentric).

If I change a fader that correspond to, say, channel 33 I would expect all fixtures in the 3d View that have something on that channel to respond accordingly, whether 'their' fader is visible or not. It's that channel settings that should matter, just as is the case with the physical fixtures.

Still haven't had time to try your apprach but if I understand correctly I will end up having to set all 4 dimmer channels in the Editor to get 3dView to show the correct result but only one of those dimmer channels will be affecting the real DMX universe. I'm sure it would work but it means more work during editing just to get 3dView to work correctly, unless there was a way to permanently 'link' a set of faders so that they always have the same value.

It might be easier to just work with the RGB channels only and leave the dimmer channel for what it is and set it to 255 permanenlty. I haven't tried the KLS-1001 yet so I don't know there's any advantage in using the dimmer channel, such as increased resolution for G intensity if for example the RGB=255,50,255 or something like that (ie does the '50' value for G get inbetween values (intensities) by using the dimmer channel) or if somehow the dimmer channel compensates for differences in the response curves of R G and B so that the color remains more constant while dimming.

[Arjan]

[quote="marco"you only see the last fixture because it overides the first 3 with the reserved channels.


but try this
program 4 fixtures with[/quote]


Thank you very much for the suggestion, but can you tell me if you have actually tried this? I just did and as soon as I map the RGB channels for head 2 to the physical DMX channels the fixture stops responding in 3d view. If I only re-map the Red channel of fixture 2 it is only the red channel that stops responding in 3d View so I'm pretty sure I'm doing it right.

Apparently the 3d view does communicate in terms of DMX channels but on the other hand it doesn't because if it did my original approach should work too. I really don't understand ShowXpress' internal model.

[marco]

no i didnt try it,was just an idea, but it doesnt work?
i though that the patch the last in line was,
i play with it this weekend and let you know
grz marco

[Arjan]

no i didnt try it,was just an idea, but it doesnt work?

Maybe I'm doing something wrong but I cannot get it work.

i play with it this weekend and let you know

That would be great!