Losing DMX signal using midi controller(s) [fixed]

[support]

We are presentlly trying to reproduce the problem with one dmx interface and one APC Mini (we have only one).
We will press as much midi buttons as possible during 10 minutes.

Are you able to reproduce the problem with only one midi device pluged ?

[support]

FYI, here, no way to reproduce the problem with only one APC Mini.

[Bonifacedj]

We are presentlly trying to reproduce the problem with one dmx interface and one APC Mini (we have only one).

Thanks for trying.
But my guess is that only one APC Mini isn't enough since i never had this blackout's on gigs when using only one APC mini with version 7 on my older small MacbookAir 11 inch.
Remember: i'm alway's working in the same club. See my signature.
Nothing in the dmx setup has been changed for years and al my lights are fixed and integrated in the club / restaurant. I don't have to install or remove them every DJ job.

What's changed since last summer is that i'm using sweetlight version 8 on a new Macbook Air 13 inch with three APC mini's.
Since then this triggering of blackouts by pushing different fysical button on a APC mini smoothly every one or two minutes for at least on hour started hitting me every gig.

We will press as much midi buttons as possible during 10 minutes.

Not long enough, if already possible to reproduce it with only one APC mini.
i've done that several times with three APCmini's connected. Hitting them like a mad man!
Takes at least an our pushing every one or two minutes a button on the APCmini. No need to do it like a mad man.

Last night i was thinking if i could create, buy a kind of simple robot who pushes different fysical buttons on a APC mini for at least an hour every one or two minutes.
But even then, if i could recreate the blackout not being DJ'ing on a party (most of them weddings), and take all the time to figure out what's happening there is not much more to report then i did already before. The software isn't crashed or frozen.
I can quit it normally and restarting the software gives me immediately light again.

Are you able to reproduce the problem with only one midi device pluged ?

That's what i'm going to try out on my next dj job, next saturday.
Since the question obviously arises if one APC Mini is enough to trigger this weekly blackout after at least one our while pushing the APC's button's.
I guess not.

This is what i described earlier as a kind of bottle or cache being filled after an hour of activating electrical midi pulses by pushing APCmini's buttons smoothly every one or two minutes at least for one hour. When 'the bottle / cache' is 'full', blackout happens, restarting the software empties the bottle / cache' and i got light again.

FYI, here, no way to reproduce the problem with only one APC Mini.

i'm hoping to experience the same next gig when using version 8 with only one APC mini on my MBA13 inch.

If i should have a blackout again next Saturday with only one APC Mini connected to my newly bought Macbook Air 13 inch running version 8, then i have to do several more test on the gigs thereafter like:

1) Running version 7 on the MBA 13 inch with only one APCmini.
If still blackout after an hour hitting the APC mini's buttons:

2) Running version 8 on the MBA 11 inch with only one APC.
If still blackout:

3) Running version 7 on the MBA 11 inch with one APC like i used to do successfully from september 2015 till last summer.
If still blackout after an hour hitting the APC mini's buttons:

Not Pushing button's on the APCmini midi controller anymore and let the macro's run automatically, which works all day in the club. I've already tested that. Which brings me back to zero, not being able to use a midi controller

But that's not possible since it worked fine since september 2015 till last summer 2016 with version 7 and only one APCmini on my old MBA11 inch.

So trying to narrow down the issue brings me to suspect the use of more then one APC mini (only native possible with version 8), probably in combination with certain types of laptops.

Mayby, a small maybe, running versie 8 with three APC mini's on my MBA 11 inch or MBP 15 inch (which i use for DJ'ing with Traktor) instead of my 13 inch solves the issue.
Then another question comes up: why is this happening with my 13 inch?
But 'im not so far yet in my investigation. I't like a detective story.

Would be interesting to read the experience of multiple APC mini users here, using a Macbook Air 13 inch or Macbook in general.
Or even PC users.
I can't be the only one who is experiencing this.

[Niffo]

It would be *very* interesting to see if the channels are still moving in the bargraph window when the problem occurs.

[Bonifacedj]

@Niffo: okay, i'll check that DMX Levels window when it happens again.
I've never opened / used that window but I'll keep an eye on it all the time now.
thx

[BartKrap]

Would be interesting to read the experience of multiple APC mini users here, using a Macbook Air 13 inch or Macbook in general.
Or even PC users.
I can't be the only one who is experiencing this.

I got an apc MINI for "sinterklaas" (since you're dutch you know what that means). When in the club last week where I'm the LD all of my lights just started to blink, randomly speed up or stop working all togeter.
Restarted the software and everything worked fine for the rest of the night. It never did that before.

Other than that, it's a great controller, it's awesome to have the backlights that you can program.

I was using a HP laptop with a core i5 450 (2cores 4threads) with 4 gb of ram. From now on I'm going to use the pc that the club bought for the lighting; Intel pentium 2020 (2cores 2threads) and 4 gb of ram. Not as powerful but with testing it didn't give any issues.

Also, I use the stack cloud service with a local sync for the lightshow so I can edit the show from home since they like to remove old and/or hang new lights every now and then and so I can put the show file back if someone decides to be stupid and delete the show file (again).

Greets

Bart

[Bonifacedj]

I got an apc MINI for "sinterklaas" (since you're dutch you know what that means).

Yes, i know what it means
But you're not using more then one APCmini so i read.

Restarted the software and everything worked fine for the rest of the night. It never did that before.

This is the only similarity with my problem: Solving it by restarting the software.

I would like read experiences from multiple APCmini users, preferably with a wireless DMX system like i use, which some people suspect and then send me articles to read like: What You Need To Know About Wireless DMX By Gary Fails President, City Theatrical, Inc..
Which i hardly understand since i'm not a technician.

Or suspect the use of 3 APC Midi controllers inline like i do, when a administrator on this forum write's with the latest V8 software... you can use up to 10 (can be extended if needed) midi devices simultaneously.

According to my technician, what's happening in the club where i work, is not a DMX problem.
If not, what is it then?
I assume it's a midi problem, hopefully not combined with a wireless DMX problem and or combination with a particular type of computer.

So next gig i'm going back to only one APCmini with version 8 and keeping an eye on the DMX Bargraph windows incase the blackout happens again.

[BartKrap]

Yes, I'm only using one APC MINI, but I am using 3 midi controllers in total (MIDI CON, nanokontrol2 and APC MINI) so this still kind of applies to me.

How are your APC MINI's connected to your mac? And the dongle (normally)?

This is important because of an issue I have had with the available bandwith once when I put too many usb devices on one hub, this was fixed when I upgraded from a usb 2 dongle to a usb 3 dongle because they have more available bandwith.

You are using midi in and out (because you can't use the colours otherwise) so could it be that you are trying to send too many signals at the same time, this would not instantly shut down the program but it kind of builds up a delay; you press the wrong button at the wrong time and... Boom, lights go dark.

[Bonifacedj]

Yes, I'm only using one APC MINI, but I am using 3 midi controllers in total (MIDI CON, nanokontrol2 and APC MINI) so this still kind of applies to me.

Ah, yes, then we're in the same (Sinterklaas) boat.

How are your APC MINI's connected to your mac? And the dongle (normally)?

Dongle normally, directly in usb port of the Macbook Air 13inch.
APC's by powered usb2 hub and lately by thunderbolt hub.
See pictures in my earlier posts in this topic at 16 November 2016, 21:19 and 04 December 2016, 09:35.
The orange cable comes from the D512 DMX sweetlight interface and goes directly into a usb3 port on my Macbook Air.

This is important because of an issue I have had with the available bandwith once when I put too many usb devices on one hub, this was fixed when I upgraded from a usb 2 dongle to a usb 3 dongle because they have more available bandwith.

Support on this forum writes "Usb2 or 3 powered hub does not matter." See his post at 15 November 2016, 09:13.
But i've changed anyhow to a thunderbolt dock, which should even have more bandwidth than a powered usb3 hub.

You are using midi in and out (because you can't use the colours otherwise) so could it be that you are trying to send too many signals at the same time, this would not instantly shut down the program but it kind of builds up a delay; you press the wrong button at the wrong time and... Boom, lights go dark.

That's right and similar to my 'filling a bottle slowly' metaphor while pushing personal dedicated macro buttons on the APCmini (all round ones) at least for one hour every minute or two.
Signals are sent by physically pushing a macro button - which triggers several scene's - on the APCmini and once 'the bottle' is full, one more macro button to push and boom, lights go dark.
Yes, that's what happening!

Now, how to deal with this issue?
- I can go buying a classic usb3 hub, which compared to my thunderbolt hub has less available bandwidth, and so will not make any difference, but i can buy it anyway for testing.
- Or i can switch off 'Midi out' under button triggers for my sixteen round macro dedicated buttons (or all buttons?)... not knowing anymore wchich button is active by watching the Akai, but it could be an interesting test.
- Or i can fall back to using only one ACP mini.

[BartKrap]

Support on this forum writes "Usb2 or 3 powered hub does not matter." See his post at 15 November 2016, 09:13.

Maybe not for how the dongle works since it works at usb 2 speeds, but with multiple usb 2 clients at usb 2 speeds, this can cause the internal usb hub (on the motherboard) to overload or even crash.

But i've changed anyhow to a thunderbolt dock, which should even have more bandwidth than a powered usb3 hub.

Not quite true, you're using the usb protocol over thunderbolt which still translates to usb speeds (I'm not sure if that's usb 2 or 3 speeds but since thunderbolt 2 was developed before the wide spread adoption of usb 3.0 it's possible it won't work at those speeds although that's unlikely).

Can you update me on the usb ports that are available on the 2013 macbook?

Let's say it has one usb 2 and one usb 3 ports, since I know for sure it has 1 usb 3 port.

What you can do is get a usb 3.0 hub (get one from Bax, if it doesn't work you can send it back within 60 days and get your money back), connect that one to your usb 3.0 port and connect your APC MINI's into that hub.
Your dongle goes into the usb 2.0 port.
http://www.bax-shop.nl/computer-accesso ... sb-3-0-hub

That should clear up the bottleneck (at least it did for me) and no longer "overflow".

Please try what support suggested and this (if possible) next saturday and see if the problem is solved.